Category: Performance Events ¤ Author: Shirley Chong ¤ Title: More on Fronts ¤ Jean (no last name? jmprobasco@ualr.edu) said: I would like to be sure I'm on the right track with my random reinforcement schedule. Let's use straight fronts as my example. Should I get 2 or more straight fronts before I click/treat? I can see Reba's intensity (and frustration) increase when I do that - she's even woofing at me like "hey, I did it - didn't you see me?"... Also, she starts to bump me with her nose when she gets to me "hey, I'm here!" like I didn't notice! On the "tries" when she doesn't get c/t, do I still give praise or just do nothing (assuming she's right)? I assume if she's not really straight, I use my wrong word and keep going.... If she's not straight most of the time, how does she know what criteria you are working on with the clicker? If she really and truly understood fronts, would she say that nose bumps and woofs are part of a good front? And why do you need a "wrong" cue for fronts that aren't straight? (hmmmmm.... considering how mysterious I want to be... ) I could very well be wrong, but I don't think you're ready to go to a random reinforcement schedule until all the various criteria are up to par. That is, her speed coming in, her distance from you, her straightness (left/right), and the speed at which she plops her butt down should all usually be at your minimum standard of acceptability first. If she's bumping and woofing when frustrated, that says to me that she doesn't TRULY understand fronts and is still experimenting with what works. You don't truly need a verbal "wrong" cue unless she sits at lightning speed (however, dogs that sit at lightning speed tend to sit very straight...). If she's a bit slower than lightning, try moving away when she starts to deviate. If she's too slow, you're not there when she gets there. If she's too far away or too close, you're not there anymore. If she's crooked, you're not there anymore. You just cut off that trial AS SOON AS you see she can't possibly come in correctly. Don't make a big deal out of it, just set it up and try again. By moving as soon as the dog has started to make the mistake, you give the dog a chance to figure out WHERE they are going wrong. You could use the verbal "wrong" signal at that point (before the dog sits all the way) but for me, simply beginning to move has been an accurate enough marker. The more I say to my dogs, the less they understand, etc... Sometimes people not only continue to stand there, they have the dog correct position AFTER the dog has made it into the sit. These same handlers often get frustrated because after awhile, their dogs do this incredible twitching dance after they arrive in the front position. The exercise is NOT "do a front and then twitch your rear around." At least, that's not the exercise in the AKC obedience ring! It's either right or wrong and if it's wrong, it's not fixable. Nothing awful happens, just move on to the next trial. Remember that when you move, you ONLY move for the same criteria you are clicking for. If you're clicking for speed coming in, only move if she isn't coming in fast enough--straightness and sit-speed doesn't matter. If you are clicking for straightness, don't worry about speed or distance. Clicking for more than one criteria at a time is just babbling with the clicker--it's pleasant to hear but it doesn't convey information. Moving (or using a "wrong" cue) for more than one criteria at a time is confusing and frustrating--but it doesn't convey information. Shirley Chong